images in Quark

[lionheart34]

I want to say I hate this little program, lol.
We are making a brochure in Public Relations Writing, I am the only one with experiance in Quark.
But every dang time I go to place pictures, no matter what I do, they look like...well crap.
I created a company logo for us in Photoshop CS. I do all my picture/graphics in photoshop.
I hope not, but I think I messed myself over by starting in 72 Resolution to make the graphics.

I just find it easier. Is it just me or do images seem to blow up or resize themselves when using brushes or other elements or something when you change the resolution? I don't know I just find 72 better to work with. Yet I know print requires more like 120-300.

stupid offhand comment but I am assuming resolution and dpi are about the same thing in pixels/inch...

So I made all my graphics (alot of them with a lot of work) and when finished I changed the resolution to 300 (making the picture blow up) and saved it as a TIFF file. Now, if I were to do it unchecking all 3 boxes (the scale styles, constrain proportions, and resample image) the resolution is 300 but the document sizes shrinks...yet shows the same in Photoshop as if nothing changed....well, till you try using it elsewhere and see it comes in in midget size, lol. I don't know why that is.
Maybe I need to figure out how to use the resolution/dpi correctly!! Well, I thought I knew...

Anyway, we run Quark 6.1 I believe at my school. I am just geting frustrated, for I know its me screwing up somewhere. And no one knows how to fix the problem.
The pictures come in like crud when I go to place them. (using just the picture box and 'Get picture' option)

So here is where I am stumped.

Is there a resolution in Photoshop that is good to save in?
The images I have to place were originally the basic 72 resolution Jpeg files. Which after touching the images up, I changed the resolution to 300 (only having the resample image checked, which blows it up)

I am SO sorry about all the questions but I am just...lost, utterly lost on what to do.
All the pictures come in grainy and bad looking, yet look great in Photoshop.

Also, do I need to make sure any color settings (RGB or CMYK or bit rate or any other settings) are present when saving images to use in Quark? As far as I know, CMYK is what is required for print...and naturally when I try to change the mode, it changes colors....

Am I a loss cause or what?
I hope I am making sense. ANY advice would be great!

As a side note, I notice people copying an image from somewhere and pasting it in Quark...is this a bad option? Because honestly, some of the images print and look fine both on screen and on paper. Maybe I am cursed? lol
Anything on these things would be MUCH help.
Sorry about the long message....
but thanks for taking your time to read it. Any help/advice would be great.

[edward]

wow! that's a long one! i'm not really good in photoshop so i'll leave your photoshop questions to the expert. about the printing requirement in images, it depends on the type of your image. bitmap images should have at least 1000 dpi, colored or grayscale images should have at least 300 dpi. (if you want to print a good quality images, that are the required resolutions.). converting an rgb image to cmyk will somewhat change the overall color values. rgb has a "broader" scope than cmyk.

most of the times, placing an image to a quark document will make it somewhat distorted (grainy). but that's just a viewing problem. you'll see the original image appearance when you convert you quark file to pdf.

a piece of advice, try to get high resoultion images. 72 dpi will not work. changing this to 300 dpi will only make the image worst.

hope it helps :)

[lionheart34]

do rgb print bad in quark? Just wondering. Yeah, sorry about the long post there. THanks for the info though :)
I guess there is no way to change resolution on pictures, grrrrr

[Scott]

#1) for print work, ALL image MUST be 300ppi! ALL. No exception. DO NOT start at 72ppi and "upres" the image. That's defeating the purpose and will ALWAYS result in poor quality. ALWAYS. Start, work and end in 300ppi. Wether it's easier or not, it's required.


#2) RGB images NEVER work for print production. EVER. Always use CMYK images in Xpress if your file is going to be printer on a commercial press. The ONLY exception to this is i you are SPECIFICALLY asked by a print provider for RGB files. But that's very very rare.

[1cowabunga]

It sounds like you are moving files from Photoshop to Quark just to print them? Why not print from Photoshop to begin with? (If I'm reading correctly)

[lionheart34]

close, but not really.
We are designing a brochure, I'm trying to get them to look right when printing out, in the design of the brochure.
I think I need to work with the sizing of the images, for I think I am pretty much screwed with the sizes of them now :(
I am going to go by the lab today to see if I can get them in a few different ways so they don't distort.

[swillox]

mmm... printing at 150dpi sometimes enough, depends on the quality you want, but surely not 72dpi !! so you have to start if possible and end you're photoshop job that way.

So of course, if you increase the pixels size, you decrease the size of the image itself.

At this point you want normally to increase your image size,...

you can only prevent distortion by "smart resizing" where you got to operate by: image/image size/ there you chose 10% and repeat this action till you're image size's great enough. this sometimes help but can't reach working at 100% or more from the start.

before you save, convert your image thrue image/mode/profile/photoshop 5 default cmyk.
I don't know why but you lose a lot less preview colors that way.

Also, be sure you check the save preview option at their best if possible (actually I use preview: Macintosh 8bit/pixels coding: binary)

Hope it helps, but you'd better make it usual for you to work at 300dpi for printing products.

[lionheart34]

ok after playing alittle in the lab here, I have an update.

It seems that I had the right idea in taking the original blown up pictures in quark, seeing the size that I wanted/needed them to be, then reopening them in photoshop to make them that size (not minding pixels, just diminsions) then bringing them back in. It works well enough. I mean, it isn't the best, but it works for what I got. I am still in the lab, but I have some screen caps and some scans I can post up later to help show some of what I mean.

The printer here sucks. For some reason it was cuttin goff part of my brouchure whenever I was trying to print it, so I just set the options to fit in printed area.

I also found that the images that seem to be the 72dpi, show up and print fine, just like an image. My other images that I have been working with are VERY "dotted" lol. Which i assume is ok, (remember that the lab printer SUCKS and only prints B&W which I can't blame them for. But it's hard to tell when things are ok or not. I will make some scans of the brochure print out when I can to post to show you what I mean and what I have going so far later.
Then you can kindof see what I am doing.
Oh, a lot of the images look sickly on the screen (naturally) and I go to do a full resolution and a window pops up. Here is a screencap of it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/Photoshop%20help/screencap.jpg

not sure what it means. Then they print out ok just dotted (which I think is ok) later. Again, onceI get the chance I will make some scans and show you what I mean. As well as of my original image...

Ok anyway (sorry abou tthis long post in advance) here some following questions/problems of the moment:


- when I try to convert my pictures in photoshop to CMYK they discolor, looking blue. So I don't make them CMYK. Is there a way around this? It happens to each picture....so I have most of them as RGB images right now....
swillox - I use photoshop CS, I don't think I saw that convert thing you mentioned...

- Do I want to have the 'Use Opi" checked when I place a picture?

- here's a stupid one that I just plain forget, if anything is placed outside the blue, it doesn't print right? I was thinking of having an outer border inside the brochure, but I have it set up with the blue colums and stuff, I just couldn't remember...

- Is it better to flatten images when doing them as TIFF files? The EPS images just look like utter CRAP, so I decided to stick with TIFF. But even my logos, with text, I am using TIFF files for. So is it better to just have the layers, or merge them? I was just wondering the proper way for this....

- is there a way to fade images at all, or do I have to do that in photoshop then put back into Quark? I was just wondering.

ok that is it for now, I will post up again later. I got this due on Friday BUT its a long going project and I am only givin gmy teacher the lab printed version (deserves her right, lol) and getting the final printed out later.

Every, much thanks for helping me with this. I just want this to be good and do it the proper way. as I have said, every little thing counts, so thank you :)

another question, sorry, how do I make Tiff files see through, I mean like a GIF. I have these sub company logos I designed and naturally when placed, the background is white. I know there is something I need to do about clippings or something in photoshop before placing....
How do I do that?

[swillox]

Well, ...

CMYK: yes the colors are washed away on your screen because you lose the range of colors "light in the color" a screen can produce that ink can't. The option I talked about must be somewhere maybe under another name (FR vs EN) but I'm only in PS7.
Anyway, as far as your job won't be printed with plates, rgb works fine and sometimes better on laser or inkjets.

Opi: I don't really know what it's good for but it's always checked when I print.

Crop: anything outside the page won't print + about 4mm inside the page for most common printing machine. you can avoid these 4mm by printing at a lower %.

TIFFvsEPS merging layers: dunno, are you talking PS or Quark ? I think they both flatten your image (merge your layers if you prefer) before saving i'm sure for PS and before printing for Quark. You'll never find any layers (back) opening a tiff or an eps...you need to save as .psd (photoshop only) if you want to preserve your layers.

Fading images: has always been a problem for me since you got to recreate exactly the same background in PS as in your final Quark lay'out. Difficulty here is that you have to think by layers before any element is in place. But I learned with time that complex merging projects are better handled by photoshop creating a background for your repetitive and complex text handling in Quark. The answer would be yes, create in photoshop (keeping the exact same background color if there is any already one in your Quark file) and putting it back in Quark... if and only if you can't create the whole blending in a separate image in PS.

curious if someone has got a different answer here, cause I'm only at PS7 and Xpress 5...

Clipping: there's an excellent tutorial here about creating clipping paths in the tutorials section, just check it, Quark handles this perfectly.

OUCH.

[lionheart34]

thank you for the response :)

so RGB should be ok then?
You know what's really weird. My TIFF files actually keep the layers when I save them...it blew my mind. That is why I asked about flattening before using it in Quark.

Quark is so evil with pictures, lol. I jsut need to figure out how to change the layout of the page I have now. I have to make minor changes. Right now I have gutter at .5 and my margins at .25, but I might just move things around and have those be white. we will see. It's so annoying that I did all the work and my group members don't understand certain elements of things and when they are important.
It was a pain too because I had the other students in my class asking me for help in photoshop too (I am the only one in the whole class that knows how to use it a bit).

I think I am goign to just reformat my one panel so I don't have to worry about the transparentcy right now. But I will check out that tutorial. I mostly teach myself this stuff. My teachers I swear are useless, lol! But I Am picking up an intro ro visual communication design here next semester...is it nerdy to say I am excited?

Do you think those gutter and margins are ok. I was just taught to do it that way. SO I have no idea what the ideal measures are.

And sorry about my cluelessness and questions but if/when I take this to get printed, should I make a disc, USB transfer, whatever it is I need, with the file AND all the pictures with it or can I just print it?

Anyway I Am going to go by the lab again later then its off to see harry potter, lol. Thank you again for the info so far, everything helps

[swillox]

First of all: never be sorry for your cluelessness: I've been there just a minute ago ! (you won't make me feel ashamed about it won't you ? :D) ...

Margins: 4mm is a standard, check your printing machine handbook or netsearch if you want the exact tip top thing...but 4mm would be ok, if it's still cropped, you can simply measure the missing part by hand on the print and compare whith what your rulers are saying in Quark...

Reassembling the whole stuff: Yes, the file you want to go printing on another machine needs all the elements (even the fonts !!) to follow it. I don't know... wait a second...I can put Xpress in English here ! "Collect for output" is the name of the task under the file menu... it will collect all the needed and present elements on your layout (even the fonts !!) and save them on a new location of your choice.

Tiff files keeping layers ?... oh well, why not, image size must surely be suffering for nothing I presume ;).

harry potter ? at 1 o' clock in the morning ? ... j/k

[edward]

OPI is a definite NO-NO for us here. OPIs are pieces of information from each image (i.e. path from where the image original was). i'm not really sure why we should not include OPIs but printers don't like OPI in their pdfs. :)

[swillox]

Ooooh ... I'll try to uncheck it tomorow see what it gives,... thank you edward.

[edward]

[QUOTE=swillox]Ooooh ... I'll try to uncheck it tomorow see what it gives,... thank you edward.[/QUOTE]

your welcome swillox! ;) but as i have said i'm not quite sure what's the difference between including or not including OPIs. ;) (i'll go ask some people here whose more knowledgeable about OPIs ;))

got it!

"OPI is an acronym for Open Prepress Interface. Importing images using OPI creates a low-resolution proxy image instead of, or in addition to, a high resolution image. It a QuarkXpress default. If using QuarkXpress, disable the OPI Xtension in the Xtensions Manager. If using Adobe Distiller to create the PDF, recommended Joboptions criteria will OPI information."

simply saying, OPIs are used to lessen the file size (especially if you have so many images used). it will make a low res version and adds the information of the original image (location, cropping, position. etc). so, in us here we do not use OPIs because we send files as pdfs and without the original images. it is mandatory for us to "embed" the original image in our documents regardless of how big the file size would be.

whew! a new thing learned today! hope it helps! (and sorry, i'm not really good in explaining things ;))