Camera Choice

[Joezilla]

Just a random question from the new guy.

I have been using a Kodak DX 4530 (5MP point and shoot) for about 18 months. I is a good camera but I am beginning to discover the numerous limitations imposed by a P&S camera. I am looking into buying a DSLR in the near future. Any suggestions? What do you the community use? I am leaning toward the Nikon D70, but the Canon rebel XT and Pentax *ist D are contenders as well. Is there a better option? I am a beginning user with Photoshop and would like to take great pics and make them even better with PS.

Thanks in advance.
Joe

[TrinityOfOne]

The Nikon is certainly a good D-SLR and has a lot of pluses over the Canon but in the majority of the reviews of the Rebel, the image quality wins hands down.

[Newby]

I'm using a canon 20D and love it, I used to have a digital rebel and I loved that camera too. The digital rebel is a great camera to start out on, but you'll find its limitations when you start getting into bigger heavier lenses. The didtal rebel has a plastic body, which doesn't promote the use of a lense bigger than a 70mm-300mm without a tripod. It can handle lense bigger than that, but you have to make sure that you always carry the camera by the lense and never let the body support the weight. I almost cracked the face on my rebel when I got my 100mm-400m lense, because I wasn't paying attention. If you want to see some pics with the digital rebel 6.3 mp check my gallery http://www.pixeladdiction.com/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=326. All the photos there were taken with the digital rebel.

One thing you may want to consider is cost. The new rebel Xt is going to be more expensive than the old rebel, but all your paying for is extra MPs. The new XT still uses the old noise reduction algorithm that the old rebel used and all you are gaining is the ability to print large format pictures. Plus the Xt is actually a little smaller the the origianl which makes it harder to handle for peolple with larger hands (strictly my opinion)

And Trin is right, Nikons are a great camera and also produce good quality pics I just know nothing about them besides that.

[MarcelSpijker]

I have the Canon Rebel, and i like it verry much.
For me it has opened my digital eyes :-)

Maybee its not as good with specs as the Nikon D70 but from the pics i have made and seen from others the Rebel is (in my eyes) much better.

The new XT is a bit smaller then the Rebel and i dont like that. I need to have something in my hands. And as Newby says i think with the XT and bigger lenses you have even more problems with it.

If you have the money look also to the 20D. I couldnt affort it but its definitly my #1 choice at the moment.

Maybee an intresting site for you is Dpreview (www.dpreview.com)
Thay have lots of info an almost every DSLR there is out there.

[Joezilla]

Fantastic! Thanks for the quick replies.

I assumed since the original Rebel was one of the first cameras (DSLR) to market that technology would have passed it by.

This is going to be a major purchase for me. I do not spend $1000 lightly. If the 20D is the way to go I may research it. I would rather spend the $1300 or so now instead of $800 now and $1200 later.

[burndog]

Very interesting site (of course I am only window shopping) some awesome reviews the 20D sure does stack up nicely against the others.

[swillox]

just for the tip: the rebel 2 is out (350d) 8mp increased shutterspeed...

[Joezilla]

The more I look the more often I flip flop on this. If the funds are available I will probably go 20D. I think I have ruked the pentax out. It seems a bit too small for me. I like the Nikon D70, but the lens support for the Canon cameras is nothing to laugh at. Unless anyone has a better suggestion, my pick will come from these 3 (Canon 20D or Rebel XT, or Nikon D70).

[Joezilla]

Alright, I think I have decided to go with the XT. With my purchase I plan to include a 2 gig memory card, which is here my next question lies. How fast does the card need to be? This is nit-picky I know, but in all it is a large investment and I wish to do it right the first time.

Essentially I am looking at 2 choices : a 2 gig microdrive with a 7.2 MPS transfer for $121
or a 2 gig CF II card with 9MPS transfer for $160. is the $40 worth it or will I be ok with the microdrive?

[Physics_Guru]

I went to a camera store to make my choice and of all the cameras under $1000, I chose the canon digital rebel. I personally think it felt better and had a higher opinion of it overall. Even the salesman helping me recommended it over a camera that was more expensive... so you know something is interesting in that aspect.

I am glad I bought the digital rebel. It is a great camera and I wouldn't trade it for any of the other cameras in the same catagory. Now... the Rebel XT.... nah... wife would kill me. :)

As for the question on the memory card - it depends.

I bought the cheapest memory card I could find because I was already over budget - but I did it knowing full well that I would get a better one later in time.

If you plan to do action shots where you hold the button down and take a ton of photos rapidly, the YOU NEED A FAST MEM CARD! When I throw my shutter speed on "so fast you'd poop yourself" (See canon manual page 56) and hold the button down to get shots of my daughter running or kicking a ball, I get about 4 to 5 shots very fast. But then the buffer for the camera is full and it will not take another picture until one or more pictures are transfered to the camera. So, on max settings I get 4 pictures rapidly and then if I hold the button down, I get about 1 picture every 2 seconds. I might as well have just taken the shots individually at that point! With the faster memory card, the camera can unload its buffer into the camera faster and you can get many more pictures in rapid succession.

For me this is a major hinderance as I do like to take action shots of children and also pictures of airplanes at airshows. So, after a new lens or four, a new memory card is on the list. If I didnt have three final exams on May 2nd, I would have already bought one since I would be at the Ft Lauderdale airshow that weekend. (stupid exams).

So it really depends on what you are going to be doing with it. If you do not expect to be holding down the button for long strings of action shots, then it really isnt all that big a deal. If you do... spend the extra bucks.

Oh... and the slower read speed means it takes longer to transfer to the computer too. :) (Make sure you have a USB 2.0 port on your computer as USB 1.1 takes twice as long.)

[PDG]

Trin hit it dead-on. Canon image quality always wins hands-down.

I would get a 20d if I had the chance. XT (350d) would follow and my current camera (300d) would be last.

If choosing between 20d and XT, look here to compare the specs (http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html).

[Newby]

[QUOTE=Joezilla]Alright, I think ...: a 2 gig microdrive with a 7.2 MPS transfer for $121
or a 2 gig CF II card with 9MPS transfer for $160. is the $40 worth it or will I be ok with the microdrive?[/QUOTE]


OK, I'm going to get on a high horse here for just one second "DO NOT BUY A MICRO DRIVE!!!" Now let me tell you why. Microdrives are nice they can write fast, but they are incredile fragile. Every review that I read about these things always says that if it were dropped at any distance above a few inches you run the risk of damaging it permanetly.

Here's what I personally recommend, and as always this is just my opinion. Don't ever buy anything over a 1 gig card. I know having more memory in one spot is nice, but it is more expensive and you run the risk if your card fails then you've lost evreything. Now if you have (2) 1 gig cards and one fails, you have a backup and potentially a small portion of pictures lost.

I would recommend the Lexar 1 gig CFII professional cards. I found a pretty good deal at this site (http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?PAGE=Controller&ac.ui.pn=cat.CatItemDetail&ac.item.itemNo=IM20612&ac.cat.CatTreeSearch.detail=y&type=SPDSEARCH). The price on the 1 gig pro card that writes at 80x is $102.99 (US dollars). There are some other sites that may have it a little cheaper so do some research, but these are the cards I use and I haven't had a problem yet.

Hope this helps

[Joezilla]

I wondered about the durability of those. I was stunned to read something similar to 'a mini hard drive for your camera'. Scratch that choice.

Thanks for the price check and advice. I will look into that.

[PDG]

Newby is right. Cards can fail.

[Joezilla]

I went and did it. I bought the Rebel XT today. Looking forward to getting my hands on it.

I went thru Dell. They are somewhat of a trusted name (not some fly by night group). They ran a deal for 15% off so it was too hard to pass up. For those interested use the
code: NP7F5MNCM3Z8WQ

It is the silver camera with lens, not black (are you that picky?).
Got the camera w/ lens, 2 512 mb cards and the 2 year warranty for less than $1100.

[PDG]

Congrats. You may also want to look at this 5-yr Mack Warranty (http://www.compuplus.com/i/CAMERAS/Digital-Camera-Extended-Warranties/Mack-5-Year-Extended-Warranty-For-Digital-Cameras-Value-Up-to-1000-830.html?sid=5nbr3z1unw87bt5&track=searchViewed&t=mack). It needs to be bought within 30 days of camera purchase, though.

[Joezilla]

I got the 2 year extended warranty from dell as well. The down side to this is it does not ship until next Friday. I have no patience, so this is going to drive me insane.

[Newby]

Hang tight Jz you'll be busy enough when you get it :D

[Joezilla]

Got my camera Wed. I am way in over my head. Way in. Good thing I am a good swimmer.

[Newby]

[QUOTE=Joezilla]Got my camera Wed. I am way in over my head. Way in. Good thing I am a good swimmer.[/QUOTE]

So when can we see pictures???

[Joezilla]

As soon as I can figure out how to use this blasted thing. This weekend is my training weekend. I have 3 CF cards and I am not coming home until they are full.

Of course, shooting Jpeg+RAW that should take 15 min or so.

[eventer]

Hi, I wonder if I could also ask for advice. I am considering upgrading my camera. I like to play around with Photoshop and I run a few websites. I take a lot of pictures of horses so 'speed' is an issue. I didn't even know until I read the above, that the type of memory being used affected the speed.

I am using a fujifinepix 6800. I love it but I would like to be able to work with raw files, among other bells and whistles that are now available. Like Joezilla, I don't want to spend $1000 and find that for $1100 I could have had a camera that is faster/better.

I filled in a questionaire on a photography site that said (from my answers) that the Nikon Coolpix 8800 was the closest to the features I thought I wanted.

I am an enthusiastic but untrained computer/photography/graphics/website hobbyist. This will be my fourth digital camera. I would like to have a camera with a PAS option, but also with the ability to 'mess around' manually. I would like excellent zoom because horses are always miles away when they do a good jump, and quick repeat photo - to take a series. The timing from when you press the button till it takes the shot is important too.

Could anyone advise if they feel the Nikon Coolpix 8800 is/is not a suitable toy for me, or if there is a similar and much superior toy out there. And if the 8800 is suitable, could you advise me on which memory card to buy for my needs.

I have read the tutorial and it was really helpful in deciding what features I needed. It made everything MUCH clearer, thank you.

[Newby]

Hey Eventer, let me check into it and I'll get back to you by tomorrow. :D

[down2earth2]

[QUOTE=eventer]I would like excellent zoom because horses are always miles away when they do a good jump, and quick repeat photo - to take a series.[/QUOTE]

If you're zooming in on horses a mile away, you should also consider getting a tripod. Any camera shake causes blurring. When you're zoomed in, a small amount of shake causes even greater blurring. I'm now trying to take every shot with a tripod if possible.

For quick repeat, a lot of cameras can be set to take several pictures in a row either with one click, or for as long as you hold down the shutter button. The time between shots can also be adjusted (10/sec, 2 per sec, ...).

[QUOTE=eventer]The timing from when you press the button till it takes the shot is important too.[/QUOTE]

For shooting action shots, any delay between pressing the button and taking the shot is a royal pain. My first digital had a long delay and it was awful. I'm surprised that that aspect of a camera is almost never mentioned in any reviews.

Good luck. This can get to seem overwhelming.

[eventer]

Thank you both so much.

Can I also ask - Would the Rebel xt be too much camera for someone like me? What is the difference on the Rebel XT between 20d 300d and 350d - I don't know what it means although there is an obvious price difference. My digital camera plus photoshop is my main hobby, I am useless but I have a wonderful time being useless. I am prepared to put the learning time in, if the difference in picture quality is worth it. I picked the name Rebel XT off several threads on PA.

One more question....is there a big difference in size and weight? I take my camera everywhere and I am very active.

D2E2
One of the specs on the Nikon 8800 is a vibration reduction which I had never seen. I thought it might help me. I do have a tripod but might invest in a smaller one if I buy a flash new camera. My tripod is old and heavy.

My fuji takes action series - but not quick enough and I don't see any way of adjusting the timing. It's a great little camera for someone like me but I have outgrown it's manual adjustments and now find it restricts me....for instance when I am...ahem...taking pictures of spring flowers!!! As I read and learn more, I want my camera to be able to do the things I am reading about.

I would also like a camera that I could add different lens to (after I learn about lens)

[MarcelSpijker]

Just wanted you to know that the Rebel XT = 350D.

I have the Rebel (300D) and am verry pleases with it. But than again i never do speed photograpy.

[eventer]

OIC thank you - ulp, I need to do more reading....

[Newby]

First thing I want to say is that the camera’s write speed is very important to taking burst shots. Now, that being said, you also need to have a memory card that can write as fast if not faster than the camera. This helps cut down on the recording time and is very beneficial to burst shooting. I would recommend that you look at the professional line memory cards that write at 80x. Lexar, SanDisk, and Fuji would be my recommendations. I personally use Lexar’s pro 80x 1GB cards and they have never let me down.

Here’s the camera breakdown as I see it. If you do want the ability to changes lenses then you do not want the Nikon 8800. It’s a pro-sumer high-end P&S. It takes wonderful pictures and it’s fairly lightweight coming in at close to 27 oz. with the battery installed. It uses the CF I or II cards, it can use a microdrive, but I highly recommend staying away from them. It appears that the maximum burst rate of 16 shots, but that appears to be at a lower resolution than RAW. Best guess would probably put it around 4-5 frame burst shooting at RAW. Another thing to take into consideration is that as of right now Nikon has a write protection built into some of their cameras that will only let you use their software to decode RAW files. As of right now PS doesn’t support the 8800 even with the release of RAW 3.1. The 8800 is a good camera if you don’t want the hassle of carrying around extra lenses, but have a few extra lenses is often nice.

Now for the DSLRs,

For the XT and the Digital Rebel I’m going to refer you to this comparison here (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/). It give a really good side by side comparison of the 2 cameras. It would be my choice to go with the Digital Rebel. The reason for this is that it is bigger easier to handle and is in my opinion more sturdy than the XT. Now the downside to both of these cameras is that the plastic body doesn’t not lend itself to heavier lenses. So we’ll get lenses in a minute.

As for the 20D, I love mine and I’m happy went up from the Digital Rebel to this camera. Here (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page2.asp) are the specs for the 20D. The max burst is approx. 5 fps (at 1/250 sec. or faster speeds) with a max of 23 fps in large/fine jpg and 6 in RAW or RAW+JPG.

Now for the lens issue.
Since you’re going to be out and about with this camera. You may want a lens allows you the most capability without having to change it out for another lens. Especially if the shot is going to change quickly. Lens with a good range of focal length would be the best bet. Something like 28-300mm would do the trick. Given the 1.6x factor in the Canon cameras that would put you at a focal length of 44-465mm. This would be great for equestrian events. The down side to this type of lens is that is can be expensive. You’re probably looking at between $500-800 dollars for the lens. But this type of lens is light weight and compact. Tamron’s version of this lens is 14.8 oz or just under a pound, and is only 3.3 inches long at 28mm.

This type of lens could be easily supported by any of the Canon cameras. So given all this. In my opinion I would go for the digital rebel and with the money you saved from not buying the XT or the 20D, go get a 28-300mm lens.

One more thing D2E2 was right. You realy should invest in a tripod or even a monopod. But given your need and for what it’s for I would get a tripod with a ball head mount. This is gong to give you ease of motion and not have to worry about adjusting the 3 sets of levels like on the older style of tripods. A lot of people who shoot sports and birds use this type of set up because they are able to follow the action in 360 degrees of motion without any hassle.

Hope this helps. If you have anymore questions don’t hesitate to ask

[eventer]

The 20D is out my price range and probably more camera than I will ever learn to use.

The lighter weight and faster speed of the Rebel XT appeals to me, as does the smaller size. I hope you don't think I am rude ignoring your suggestion that the larger camera might suit me better. I really dread the extra weight.

I found two Rebel XT 'bundles' on ebay.canada.
1) Two Canon lens inc the size you suggested, a 1 gb sandisk ultra ll cf card and a tripod.
1599 CDN
2) Two Tamaron? lens - also inc the size you suggested, a 1 gb sandisk extreme lll card - no tripod.
!899 CDN

The cheaper bundle has everything exept the faster card. Should I go with it and look for the Lexar 80x at a later date? How expensive are the cards? By fluke the first bundle is from a place in a nearby city and I could go and see it/pick it up. Advice? Cautions? Price OK?

Canadian dollar is about 68 cents US The cameras in Canada seem slightly cheaper than in the US.

[Newby]

[QUOTE=eventer]The 20D is out my price range and probably more camera than I will ever learn to use.

The lighter weight and faster speed of the Rebel XT appeals to me, as does the smaller size. I hope you don't think I am rude ignoring your suggestion that the larger camera might suit me better. I really dread the extra weight.

.....
Canadian dollar is about 68 cents US The cameras in Canada seem slightly cheaper than in the US.[/QUOTE]

Hey Eventer,

I don't think you're being rude :D. Every person has their own taste in cameras. I just told you what in my opinion was teh best bet. You asked me to supply the info to help you choose and you did and that's great:D (It shows I'm being useful arund here:)) As for the cards Sandisk shows both the extreme and the ultra sereis writing at the same speeds. Check the Ultra out here (http://www.sandisk.com/retail/ultra2-cf.asp) and the Extreme here (http://www.sandisk.com/retail/ext-cf.asp). Given that they both show a write speed of around 60-66x I would get the cheaper ebay deal and go get a Lexar pro 80x and use the San Disk as a back up. The Lexars usually run between $89-109 here.

As for the price on the second bundle, just make sure that the person is a reputable seller and use a money service that can protect you from fraud. In most cases people selling that low either need to get rid of it becuase they need money or something may be wrong with it. So, check it out and do some research. If the second bundle does look good, then just go get a tripod and a ball head mount seperatly. With the money you would be saving a tripod and ball head should only cost you around $100.


Have fun with the new camera

[eventer]

Thank you so much, this is a great forum and a wonderful place to get advice. Thank you again, I really appreciate it.

[Joezilla]

Time to add my two cents.

As you know, I just bought the Rebel XT. I was kind of in your shoes. I enjoy picture taking and messing with Photoshop. The difference in picture quality from my previous camera (Kodak DX4530) is amazing. Going to a DSLR is well worth it.

My advice for the Rebel XT. Do some close price comparison to the 20D. I had a $1500 limit and the 20D fell just outside. I could have bought the camera and nothing else. The Rebel XT has been everything I wanted and more, but I think the 20D would have been the end all for me in camera buying. I took the step down and got a few accessories.

CF speed is a huge issue. Seriously. Dont consider anything else other than high speed. This is the second higest priority in accessory upgraded.

I didnt listed when people told me this, so I will repeat it and hopefully you will listen to me. DO NOT BUY THE 18-55mm LENS PACKAGE!!! I have had this camera less than 1 month and I have already upgraded the lens Save the $100 and invest in the Lens. I upgraded to the DSLR because I felt limited by my P&S. With this lens I am limited again but in a different way. I could not get close enough to take wildlife pics before they scurried away. The 18-200mm would be ideal (one lens, no swapping) but it is too rich for my blood.

The Rebel XT is good for me because it has all the features of a P&S (portrait, macro, landscape), a general P&S option, plus varying levels of control (aperture control, exposure control, both, shutter speed, all). My pictures are horrible because I dont know what I am doing, but it is the best horrible I have ever seen.

Drawback: For you this may be a huge reason to consider the 20D. At higher shutter speeds the Rebel XT has horrible noise. Pop Photo magazine rated the XT as unacceptable at 1600, but comparable with the 20D below 400. What this means to you (guys, help me out on this) is that high speed action and/ or darkness will be 'grainy'. If you take pics of running horses at twilight, consider the investment in the 20D.

I love my camera. I will love it more when my lens arrives.

Let me know if you have specific questions on the XT

[Newby]

Thanks for the hands on reply JZ. I don't know anyone who has an XT so all my knowledge on it is from what I have read. Thanks for the input :D

[eventer]

The bundle I am looking at has the 18-55 lens but it also has a canon 75-300 usm lens with it.
I am going back to look at the 20D again, as per Joezilla's advice.

Sheesh....this is not easy!

[Joezilla]

Nope, its not. I still go back and wonder if I should have gone another route. THe Nikon D70 has a much better stock lens but is only 6.3 MP. I considered this for some time before I rationalized that I could swap lenses later, but not MP. Had Nikon had a 8MP in the same price range, I would still be debating.

I have never seen a 20D, all of my local stores are sold out all the time. I would like to compare the XT and the 20D personally, and I will not let this issue rest in my mind until I do so.

The 18-55mm lens + the 75-300mm should be plenty. I only have the 18-55mm. I just want to get closer to the birds in my backyard.

[Newby]

[QUOTE=Joezilla]Nope, its not. ... I only have the 18-55mm. I just want to get closer to the birds in my backyard.[/QUOTE]

Hey JZ, how close do you want to get. I have a 400mm prime Tokina lens that I'm thinking about selling. If you're interested I'll post it in the Garage sale forum. :D

[Joezilla]

I just bought a 100-200mm lens off eBay (I am cheap, I cant help it) for $45 US. Had you said something a week ago I probably would have taken you up on it. How much?

[Newby]

Hey EV,

I found this little guy (http://store.nationalgeographic.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=2194&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=121&iSubCat=197&iProductID=2194) and thought it would be a fun inexpensive way to get action shots for you. Can't say much about it, but it looks neat.

[eventer]

Just got back from a horse show. That "little guy" looks pretty cool. I might just have to have one of those LOL

No further on in my camera choice. I have ruled the Nikon 8800 out. I heard a rumour that they were bringing out a 8mp upgrade to the D70 - anyone heard that?

I am tempted to go for the 20D but I wonder if it's more camera than I can use. Since it's show season for me, I haven't had a day off in May to go look at them 'in the flesh' as it were.

Newby - if you haven't sold your lens, perhaps you would tell me about it. I will need lens too. I don't mind what order I buy in. The fittings are universal are they not?

[Newby]

Not entirely, Older Canon cameras use a FD mount, which is old school and if I'm not mistaken isn't used anymore. When you go looking for lenses if you get a Canon you're looking for EF or EF-s mounts. The 400mm Prime I have is an EF mount so it will work with the Digital Rebel, the XT, 20D, 10D, 30 and 60Ds, 1ds and the 1DsmarkII.

I'm not sure if a prime is going to be good for you with the type of shooting you're doing, but if you find yourself shooting from one spot that is over 33 ft away form the action you may like the lense. If you want I can link to some pics I took with the lense so you can see what its performance is like.

Let me know

[eventer]

I am close to buying the 20D because of the metal alloy body and the salesman (doing his job well) told me the seals are better for dust etc. In my life that's important.

Is there an article or a tutorial somewhere that would explain lenses to me?

For instance - a USM is more expensive than any other - why? Should I go for USM?

Is there a big difference in makes/brands? Should I stick to Canon?

I would like: something to do macro with (this whole camera passion arrived with the 'flower photo competition);a long distance something to take the horses on cross country; and eventually a wide angle because it seems the right thing to have.
Hoping this illustrates my abysmal ignorance

[Newby]

Hey Eventer,

Macro wise the tutorial (http://www.pixeladdiction.com/bb/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=40) I wrote covers lenses and other options for equiment for shooting macro.

As for what USM is. It stands for Ultrasonic Motor. USM makes autofocusing quicker and quieter. Which is great for sporting events, which is where you're at I believe. Two of my lenses are USM and I reall like the speed of focus on them.

Lenses come in all shapes and sizes. This thread (http://www.pixeladdiction.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2957?do=markread) had some useful info as well.

If you want a good idea of different Canon lenses try this (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7444). You'll be taken to a Canon lens page, on the righthand side in the sidebar you'll see EF Lenses 101. Click on that and click on applications. It's a great way to learn what lenses are best for different types of photography.

You can check out Tamron (http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/autofocus.asp), Tokina (http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/autofocus.asp), and Sigma (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/) as well. Sigma is usually the cheapest in price with good quality. I know originally you said the cost was an issue, so Sigma may be the way to go.

As for wide angle I'm getting some mixed feelings. Most manufactures are developing wide angle lenses to adjust for the magnification factor on small sensor cameras. And these are wonderful, but you can only use these new lenses on the smaller sensors. If you ever upgrade to a 35mm equivelent sensor this lense will do you no good. I'll get back to you with some more info on these.

If you have any more questions let me know.

Update
Eventer is this the kind of stuff you're going to be shooting??? Click Here (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/231633)
If so this guy used a Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS with a 1.4x T/C on all the shots. Mind you that is not a cheap set up.

[eventer]

Horse photos - Yes, that's exactly the sport! Thank you for the info on USM, I read that it meant Ultrasonic Motor but had not latched onto the fact that it was good for sports events.

They are fast moving and I cannot always be ready w tripod etc as I am often running from the start box to a jump to catch my rider/horse on 'film' as they go by.

The horse photos give me a 'legit' reason to buy the camera - the photos will help me show my horses to potential clients. But the REAL reason..... I have visions of myself doing 'stuff' in my spare time. I take my Fuji everywhere with me and will often stop and take some photos when something about the scene/architecture catches my interest. I an an outside photographer - indoors would rarely interest me. I like to wander around photographing things as they appeal. The wonder of digital is the freedom to screw up over and over again while you learn.

I am negotiating a 'bundle' = Canon 17-40 L USM, Canon 75-300 USM 3, 20d and 1gb extreme 3 card. My present tripod seems to be in good working order and I have a good camera/computer bag. What do you think of the choice of lens? I was hoping they would cover most things to get me started. I would like a macro lens but it's not going to happen right away... I looked at Sigma and Tamron and they looked just fine to me but the guy selling the camera is offering the Canon lens. It's local and I can go pick it up this weekend if he gets it all together - how exciting is that!

I am completely sold on the 20D in terms of ruggedness alone - only panicking about lenses now. I am NOT yet committed to the above lens.

[Newby]

Eventer,

Those are both really good lenses, I wouldn't hesitate on either one. Are they new or used???

[down2earth2]

[QUOTE=Newby]Eventer is this the kind of stuff you're going to be shooting??? Click Here (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/231633)[/QUOTE]

Those are some nice shots. Crisp and clean.

[eventer]

new - it's a camera shop I saw on a 'completed' ebay listing, there were no active bundles on ebay that appealed - it's only about 1.5 hours from me. I phoned him up and talked to him about increasing the memory card from an extreme 2 to an extreme 3. I also asked about the Lexar 80x but he says the extreme 3 is nearly double the speed. He is happy to put a bundle together for me and the prices are excellent - better than ebay. For some reason it seems that cameras are a tiny bit cheaper in Canada than in the US.
I am looking at around 2750 Cdn (1800 US) for the lot - The going rate for the camera w the 17 - 85 lens (perhaps a much more expensive lens?) is 2550 Cdn. The camera w the 18-55 lens can be bought for 1799.Cdn. The cdn dollar is about 1/3 less than the US dollar at present.
What do you think?

[Newby]

I would say go for it, as long as the camera guy a reputable dealer???

[down2earth2]

[QUOTE=eventer]new - it's a camera shop I saw on a 'completed' ebay listing, there were no active bundles on ebay that appealed - it's only about 1.5 hours from me. I phoned him up and talked to him about increasing the memory card from an extreme 2 to an extreme 3. I also asked about the Lexar 80x but he says the extreme 3 is nearly double the speed. He is happy to put a bundle together for me and the prices are excellent - better than ebay. For some reason it seems that cameras are a tiny bit cheaper in Canada than in the US.
I am looking at around 2750 Cdn (1800 US) for the lot - The going rate for the camera w the 17 - 85 lens (perhaps a much more expensive lens?) is 2550 Cdn. The camera w the 18-55 lens can be bought for 1799.Cdn. The cdn dollar is about 1/3 less than the US dollar at present.
What do you think?[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you've learned tons about phtography, and you haven't even bought your camera yet! When you do finally take the plunge, I'd love to have the full run-down on what you buy.

[eventer]

With all the help and advice I have had from this forum and Steve Caplin's, believe me, I will be posting the "run down" before I even unpack it. I cannot believe the help and advice I have had, and all of it really really good.

The internet is just too cool when it comes together the way this site has. I have never been able to find a similar type of horse community on the web, but found it flourishing amongst pot bellied pig owners and photo shop users - go figure.

Yes Newby, he is a reputable dealer. Two very big and successful shops in nearby Ottawa. Not only did he offer the best deal but he just happens to be about 90 mins drive away - I can go and handle everything and ask tons of stupid questions - he is going to earn his sale by the time I wade through all the stuff I have been told to ask and find out about. Poor man, it's not a list of questions and demands, more like a journal full. Little does he know he is fulfilling prerequisites from an entire camera buying team!

[eventer]

OK, so off I went to the camera shop, waiving my cashbook, and they were out of stock....

Believe it or not I still don't know which lens I am buying - they offered to 'match prices' with an offer I had seen on the net if they can get the lens. It has the sandisc card, a 17-40 and the 75 - 300 I mentioned before.

If that doesn't happen, I have ordered the 20D with a sandisc extreme 3 1gb card - either the basic 18-55 lens - I will learn a bit more before investing in more lens.

Maybe tomorrow....<sigh>

[eventer]

Well....after all that. Both the shops that offered me the deals with the lenses were unable to come up with a 20D. I got the 20D today from a third shop, with the basic lens (18-55) and a 1gb extreme 3 card.

I am going to save up for the 70-200 lens that Newby has recommended, meanwhile I will learn how to use the camera. I was most intimidated when I unpacked it, the whole putting on the lens thing was a bit nerve wracking.

The camera has an intuitive interface, much more so than my last p&s.

Tomorrow is photo day #1....yipee

Thank you all for your help and advice, I love my camera already, it's sitting on my bed beside me, I couldn't bear to leave it all the way downstairs.

[Newby]

Congrats EV I hope you enjoy your new camera :D

[Dave]

God invented cameras ....

look how perfectly the carrying strap goes around your neck and how your fingers fit so readily to the controls, your eye to the viewfinder .... :)

Happy hunting!

[down2earth2]

I'm smiling just thinking about how much fun you're going to have tomorrow. :) Good luck, and happy days.

[Joezilla]

Congrats on the camera. I am envious. My final recommendation is to save for the 75-300mm lens. I went and bought it and I cannot tell you how often I use the zoom. I rarely use the 18-55mm now. Usually indoors when 75mm is too close. Other than that, it is in my bag.

[eventer]

Thanks Joezilla - that lens is on my shopping list. I already "want" three lens....LOL

I have to babble a bit, since none of my horse friends are the least bit interested in hearing about my new camera. I would recommend those readers who are not interested in hearing me coo and fuss over my new toy, might want to stop reading right here....I promise not to take offense.

It's unbelievably easy to use. I can't believe how fiddly and complicated the 'settings' were on my fuji p&s in comparison to the 20D. I was so intimidated when I got the 20D home, it took me ages to get it out the box and a further few hours to actually take a photo. I sat there for ages feeling like someone who doesn't know how to ride, and they have gone out and bought a very expensive horse. However, it's incredibly intuitive and I found myself able to use all the basic (auto) settings within half an hour or so, whereas it took me weeks to learn using the file setup on my fuji.

I have not ventured very far into the "creative settings" which are the things I bought the camera for - adjustability. But I find myself so comfortable with the camera that I have already started pressing buttons and experimenting.

Have I mentioned it's beeeeyuuuutiful?

[Newby]

Happy to hear you love the new camera. You're going to have to post some pics soon:D

[eventer]

This is my first horse picture with my 20D - brace yourself, there are probably going to be a lot of horse pictures around....

[Newby]

Hey Ev, great shot :) And many more to come I hope.

BTW: Don't forget our little challenge :devil:

[Dave]

[QUOTE=eventer]This is my first horse picture with my 20D - brace yourself, there are probably going to be a lot of horse pictures around....[/QUOTE]
Great action!

Any shots of Prince Phil doing his driving or has he retired now?

[eventer]

Yup, I think PP has retired.

When I took the above shot, I had it on the sport setting which takes multiple shots - I wasn't quite ready for it to go 'kchung' 'kchung' 'kchung' and start taking a whole series. It was terribly exciting and worth all the research and hassle and waiting, it's EXACTLY what I wanted to be able to do. AND....it sounds soooooo professional!

I will get the tripod set up next time :-) That will be for the cage match....

[Joezilla]

I am a subscriber to popular photo magazine. I got the July issue today and it has 10+ "secret features" of the 20D. You may want to check it out. It is the issue with the new Mamiya ZD on the cover. Hard to miss a 22MP camera. (In case you are wondering as I did, $12,500 without lens).

[eventer]

Ooooh yes, I need to know those!

Is this a US mag or UK? I am in Canada but can get both.

Did I mention how beeeyuutiful my new camera is? I am still at the awestruck stage.

[Dave]

[QUOTE=eventer]Ooooh yes, I need to know those!

Is this a US mag or UK? I am in Canada but can get both.

Did I mention how beeeyuutiful my new camera is? I am still at the awestruck stage.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a US publication - http://www.popphoto.com/

[Joezilla]

Yup, US. I am still a rookie myself and I do not know which would be most helpful or I would cut and paste parts here. The mag itself isnt too bad, although half of the mag is advertising (seroiusly, the last 80 pages in a 170 page mag are ads, and the first 110 are swarmed with ads as well)

[Dave]

[QUOTE=Joezilla]Yup, US. I am still a rookie myself and I do not know which would be most helpful or I would cut and paste parts here. The mag itself isnt too bad, although half of the mag is advertising (seroiusly, the last 80 pages in a 170 page mag are ads, and the first 110 are swarmed with ads as well)[/QUOTE]That's why the subscription is cheap (and their profit high!)

[eventer]

Every little bit helps. I am looking for a couple of good books too. I have a book ordered that Newby advised - anyone else got a favourite digital photography book?

[Dave]

[QUOTE=eventer]Every little bit helps. I am looking for a couple of good books too. I have a book ordered that Newby advised - anyone else got a favourite digital photography book?[/QUOTE]Playboy Wet 'n Wild? :D

[eventer]

Right......